CD7 debate: Fiery ideology vs ideas and facts
Standing-room only audience at the CD7 debate.
Last night’s Congressional District 7 public debate revealed the stark contrast between the candidates and their followers.
Congressman and incumbent Democrat Raul Grijalva faced challengers Republican Ruth McClung, Libertarian George Keane, and Independent Harley Meyer, in front of an enthusiastic (and sometimes rowdy) standing-room only crowd.
OK, call be biased (and I’m sure you will), but Grijalva was the only candidate with solid ideas based upon facts– rather than ideology. The only other interesting candidate with original ideas was Meyer (the Independent). Unfortunately, he is too smart to be elected in Arizona– or probably anywhere out side of NYC, LA, San Francisco, or Boston. McClung is a Sarah Palin wannabe— one of the Republican Party’s new Stepford Wives of Politics. As if she were at a rally and not a debate, she spouted fiery, rehearsed rhetoric based upon the standard Republican Party line. The Tea Baggers, who were well-represented, ate it up. Keene (the Libertarian) spouted their party line– cut taxes, government, and regulations; let the markets be free and the people be dammed.
The debates was built around 5 questions based upon major issues: immigration, jobs, healthcare, education, and balancing the federal budget. The hosts of the debate (Tucson Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Arizona Public Media, ASUA, and Pima Community College Desert Vista Campus) distributed the questions in advance. The moderator from the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce kept the speakers to strict time limits with their answers, but it was difficult for her to control the boisterous and disruptive Tea Party section of the audience. Everyone was told at the beginning that the audience could have “no audible responses” to the questions– no clapping, cheers, boos, etc. The moderator said that people who didn’t obey these rules would be removed.
The problem was that a block of 40 or so of McClung’s Tea Party supporters, who were sitting together, thought the rules didn’t apply to them. [And these are the patriotic “law and order” folks?] They repeatedly interrupted the televised debate with cheers and clapping for McClung or negative comments for Grijalva. At one point, Grijalva said politely, “Excuse me. All I’m asking for is a little courtesy and respect.”
Although they were warned by the moderator and random Grijalva supporters shouted, “Throw them out!”, the Tea Partiers didn’t pay attention. In their final act of disrespect, several of them walked out en masse as Grijalva began his closing remarks.
In a nutshell, here is what the candidates said on immigration and jobs. Check out the Arizona Public Media for a video of the debate to learn more.
Immigration
Grijalva: We need security on the border. This means “dealing with the realities of the border”, and this goes beyond building a fence. We need to stop the drugs coming to the US and stop the guns and money going to Mexico. We also need to deal with the realities of “blended families” whose family members are on both sides. And, we need to have an honest assessment of our workforce needs as a country (ie, what types of workers do we need to build our economy). [People who say we should deport the 12.5 million undocumented workers in the US are forgetting that when the Baby Boomers retire, the US will have a severe worker shortage.]
Keane: We should build a double fence in populated areas but forget about trying to build the fence along the whole border. [So, won’t they just go around it?] We should increase the number of people who can work legally in the US because the quotas are too low.
McClung: The border fence is necessary. We should have a guest worker program, where people could secure “day passes” to cross the border to work. [In my opinion, a guest worker program would just further depress wages in the US– and particularly in border states. This is seriously bad idea for Arizona’s workforce, but a really great idea for profit-hungry businesses.] We should “go after” employers who employ undocumented workers.
Meyer: We need to look beyond the border and the fence. Splitting families up is dangerous for our country.
Jobs
Grijalva: The federal government should directly invest in projects to get people working [the FDR model]. We should continue the Bush II era tax cuts for the middle class but let the tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% of Americans to expire. [This is what President Obama has been pushing for, since 1) the rich don’t need the money and 2) it will help the country financially.] We should invest in job training and retraining for a new economy. If someone is working in an industry that is no longer based in the US, the government should invest in retraining. We should keep the capital gains tax.
Keane: We should lower corporate taxes, lower state and local taxes, and deregulate. [Where has this guy been? Didn’t we learn anything from the deregulation spree under Bush II and the Republican-controlled Congress?]
McClung: We should extend all Bush II era tax cuts– even those for the wealthiest Americans [even if it blows a hole in the deficit. This brought cheers from the Tea Partiers. Even though none of them appeared to be in the richest 1% of Americans. Even though the Tea Partiers say we should balance the budget and cut government spending, they somehow support extending tax cuts to the wealthy.] We should allow the Rosemont Copper Mine to go through because it will create jobs [to heck with the environment]. We should end capital gains tax. We should invest in new technology [no specifics here], and we should NEVER HAVE SOMEONE WHO WILL CALL FOR A BOYCOTT! [Her emphasis, not mine. This also got her Tea Party supporters to break the moderator’s rules. You’ll note that most of her answer– except for the copper mine– had nothing to do with jobs and everything to do with the Republican Party line.]
Meyer: We can’t compete with the extremely low wages paid to workers in other countries. We should change our system and incentivize businesses to create jobs in the US again. [Several times he suggested that the audience google “OPIC”— Overseas Private Investment Corporation– a government program created by President Nixon that incentivizes US companies to invest in businesses abroad. Check out the link. I told you this guy was smart.]
If you missed the CD7 debate last night, you can catch the CD8 debate– Gabrielle Giffords vs Jesse Kelly– on October 18 on the University of Arizona campus. (Hopefully, they have reserved a decent-sized room.)
Members of RepubliCorp performance art group in the Pima Community College lobby. Note the signs saying, "McClung is ours. Buy your own dang politician."
34 comments on “CD7 debate: Fiery ideology vs ideas and facts”
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Tucson Progressive 
I’ll bet most of the tea-baggers at the debate were really from Gabby’s district 😉
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Well, maybe, but I bet there are some angry, old white folks on Social Security and Medicare (AKA Tea Partiers) in CD 7. McClung’s supporters yesterday were representative of the people described in the “Tea and Crackers” story printed in Rolling Stone recently.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904?RS_show_page=0
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You like throwing around words like that. “Angry white folks on Social Security.”
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fraser, I have made it a point to attend Tea Party rallies here in town. Based on my observations, it is overwhelmingly white at Tea Party events and if those folks aren’t on SS, most of them certainly qualify. Now, the frequent misspellings on the banners and signs is still a mystery to me.
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Heck Leftfield that term applies to you. Anger white folks on Social Security? I think you have said you are over 62?? Or 65. lol
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No, not quite. Close enough though that nobody at the TP rallies looks at me twice. They never suspect that a commie is in their midst, keeping an eye on them.
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You would have had a great career in the NKVD, KGB, GRU, STASI and a host of others. Whats the Cuban Secret Police called?……
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Whats the Cuban Secret Police called?……
I think they’re called, “The Fraser Team”. Here, they keep an eye on revolutionaries, there they keep an eye on counter-revolutionaries. Seems fair, don’t it?
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LOL
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They have the DGI for abroad and SDE for home….
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Well, I was there and who I saw cheering for McClung. As leftfield states, if they are not on SS, they appear to be old enough to qualify.
As for angry– they were shouting an awful lot. I take that as a sign of anger.
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Its called Democracy. Are you going to stop people from going ?
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Yes, we’re going to stop them by calling their grandchildren and telling them that the old guy is acting up again and the neighbors are starting to complain. If that doesn’t work, we’re going to put reruns of Matlock and Lawrence Welk in heavy rotation to keep them at home.
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Nope, I just think the “they’re breaking OUR laws” mob should 0bey the rules like everyone else. McClung’s supporters were rude and disrespectful to everyone who didn’t agree with them.
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Are you just as outraged when Code Pink causes a disturbence at a public event, or students at Columbia University storm the stage to end a speaking engagement by a speaker from the Minuteman project?
Or is your outrage just reserved for some?
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“Its called Democracy. Are you going to stop people from going ?”
The left is finally realising that those that stand against them are finally starting to play for blood at the grass roots level, just as the left has done for generations.
It scares them that if someone with an “R” by their name gets elected it might not be the standard “go along, get along” Republican…but someone ready for war in the trenches.
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The left is finally realising that those that stand against them are finally starting to play for blood at the grass roots level, just as the left has done for generations.
Umm – that isn’t something that we have suddenly realized – it’s been going on all my life.
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Well…..someone forgot to tell the country club Republicans….thats why they are also on their way out.
8^)
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It scares them that if someone with an “R” by their name gets elected it might not be the standard “go along, get along” Republican…but someone ready for war in the trenches.
Who are you referring to here? Not McClung. Grover Norquist has produced a TV attack ad for her, and her campaign rhetoric is straight out of the Republican Party’s Pledge to America. She’s already in lock step with the “Country Club” Republicans in Congress.
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My God, lady you have to have more supporters here than leftfield!!
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Thats because Gabby has done such a great job of protecting the border! What did she push for a “whole” 530 troops on the line. Wow, a whole 530. Thats a little more than two companies of troops. I’m really impresed.
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She didn’t “push” for 530 troops on the border, she pushed for thousands. The President is the one who agreed to send only 530. Gabrielle Giffords has been the strongest advocate for our border security in Washington, much more effective than McCain or Kyle. She is well liked and well respected out here in Cochise County. Those Republicans in her ads who say that she “gets it” when it comes to border security are real live residents of Cochise County – not some out of state actors told to act like “hicks”, like the NRSC used in West Virginia.
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So where are the thousands?
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Well maybe the Toad doesnt want many troops here. It will keep back all of his future voters.
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Well, maybe, but I bet there are some angry, old white folks on Social Security and Medicare (AKA Tea Partiers) in CD 7
True – but they have always been here – and a minority. There are lots of teabaggers in Tucson, but from what I’ve seen they are mostly in Gabby’s district and are just trying to make noise in a district they don’t live in.
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Pamela is negative campaigning Immoral? I would love your answer.
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Lying to get votes is immoral.
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Well…..can you point out just one “moral” member of Congress then by using that standard?
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Well…..can you point out just one “moral” member of Congress then by using that standard?
Politifact fount that 4 percent of political ads this year (by both parties) were honest.
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Well…..I bet you would have trouble finding one member of Congress that has not “lied” to get a vote.
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Well…..I bet you would have trouble finding one member of Congress that has not “lied” to get a vote
Honesty is the best way not to lose elections in us politics – just ask Jimmy Carter.
We want them to lie to us.
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So is there video of the tea bagger embarrassment? I was hoping to get some laughs on azpm.org, but all I find is a quietly moderated debate with no audience.
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excellent information keep up your good work thanx
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Cool post thanks, needed some more images maybe.
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