Tucson Progressive

Pamela Powers Hannley, a progressive voice for Arizona

Stop gun violence: How’s that ‘Constitutional Carry’ Law workin’ for ya now? (video)

The Republican-controlled Arizona Legislature has long been controlled by the gun lobby. Guns in bars. Guns in schools. Guns on university campuses. Guns in parks. Where will this nonsense end?

In April 2010, the Arizona Legislature passed and Governor Jan Brewer signed a law allowing Arizonans to carry concealed weapons without a permit— euphemistically called “constitutional carry”. Arizona is now one of the few states in the US where this is legal. Our law is even more liberal that Texas.  In this excerpt from Men’s News Daily, a gun lobbyist gleefully promotes constitutional carry in Arizona.

The intrusive government “permit” system in Arizona, introduced in 1994 with paperwork, approvals, fingerprinting, criminal-database listings, required classes, two mandatory tests, taxation and expiration dates to exercise “rights” is still available, but is now optional. Enormous police resources that could be going directly toward reducing crime have instead been diverted by the program into registering, regulating and tracking the innocent. About 3% of the public have signed up for the plastic-coated permission slips, though an estimated 50% of the state’s population keeps and bears arms. Official sources acknowledge they get millions of dollars per year from the permit taxes called “fees.”

“This new law brings rights restoration for the public, and an increase in freedom for law-abiding people,” said Dave Kopp, a lobbyist for the Arizona Citizens Defense League that requested and promoted the new law. “The people have the same right to bear arms discreetly that they have to bear arms openly, we are simply correcting statute to reflect that. If your jacket accidentally covers your sidearm, that no longer exposes you to criminal penalties.” A woman will be able to put a handgun in her handbag, go about her business, and not be subject to arrest.

The key changes in the law were made by repealing the infringing language in A.R.S. §13-3102, not by enacting new rules. A number of other changes were made in SB 1108, the bill that carried the Constitutional Carry law, and these will be described in plain English and posted by gunlaws.com next week. The new law will become effective 90 days after the legislature closes, or approximately in July.

Guns don’t make us safer; they only make our lives more dangerous. According to public health research, the number one risk factor for being shot by a gun is owning a gun. Also, according to the research, gun owners are more likely to shoot friends and family members than burglars or other bad guys. Wake up, Arizona.

Extremist FOX news pundits like Glen Beck and Sean Hannity and politicians like Sarah Palin whose website displayed gunsite logos on 22 targeted Congressional districts– including Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords’ CD8– and Nevada’s Sharon Angle who talked about “second amendment solutions” should be ashamed of themselves for the role they have played in the proliferation of hate speech and violence in the US.

In this special video comment, MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann calls out these pundits and politicians. It aired on January 8, after Giffords was shot point blank in the head at a Tucson grocery store.

[tnivideo caption=”Keith Olbermann comments on gun violence and the Giffords’ shooting” credit=”Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC”]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq38Nnf4pOw[/tnivideo]

80 comments on “Stop gun violence: How’s that ‘Constitutional Carry’ Law workin’ for ya now? (video)

  1. JoeS
    January 9, 2011

    Yes,  no doubt someone determined to commit murder would be deterred by a permit requirement…..like for sure.  

  2. Bill Couch
    January 9, 2011

    Dear Keith, I have lived abroad in Poland for 13 years. I heard people say how shocked they are about the murders in Tuscon. I was NOT. I was expecting it. I have been on the mailing list of some Tea Party types. I have warned them that the venom they were spreading could lead to violence – and in particular political assassination. I had in mind the President. But I guess he is very heavily guarded. it seems though Rep. Giffords was not so protected.
    I have just finished watching your commentary. CONGRATULATIONS.
    Bill C, Warsaw, Poland

    • recovering progressive
      January 9, 2011

      ” venom they were spreading could lead to violence ”

      So conservatives inspired a far left wing radical to murder a bunch of people.  Thanks for the demonstration of the logic of the left.

      • leftfield
        January 9, 2011

        That funny, some others are describing Jared Lee as an anti-Federal Reserve, constitutionalist type.  I don’t believe anyone has heard from the horse’s mouth exactly what his motives were. 

      • recovering progressive
        January 10, 2011

        He was an Atheist, a Truther (a left wing conspriacy theory, its Boosh’s fault!), his friends described him as a left wing radical, he was a pot head.

        Yup, fits the profile of a tea party member perfectly!

    • Charles McGee
      January 9, 2011

      I take issue with the notion that statements by individuals prompt others to do things. I can not make anyone drink the kool aid. Born as an African American in Northwest Oklahoma in 1936, I have seen it all. I was in college in 1968 when my Sociology professor urged that we stop speaking of perpetrators as sick. They learn certain things because they are taught certain things. If human life is not valued then taking a life does not offend the sensibilities. We send drones to kill in Iraq and Afghanistan. We say that
      Julian Assange should be hunted down and killed. Even our presidents have made such statements. So, why would Jared Lougher not see killing as normal. Killing in America is a culturally validated behavior.

    • gtr81
      January 9, 2011

      hey fascist propagandist Bill!  stay in poland, and keep letting the Russians wipe you guys out, and then try to find the nearest gun owner when they come for you, so he might be able to protect you.

  3. Pingback: Gun used in Tucson was purchased legally; Ariz. laws among most lax in nation – Washington Post | Law Advice

  4. Jon Goldsberry
    January 9, 2011

    It’s amazing how an article like this gets the story wrong.  Yes it is a tragedy that others were shot by an irresponsible and cowardly gun owner.  It does NOT, however, have ANYTHING to do with concealed cary!!  The gunman was using an ASSAULT RIFLE.  This is not covered under ANY concealed carry statute of any state.  WHile many states like Arizona have laws permitting the ownership of assault rifles, they do NOT permit the concealed cary of same and have strict rules on how to transport them.  To use this as an attack on the concealed carry laws of any state shows how the writer is promoting the agenda of the leftwinglaydownandbeavictim mentality.  The gunman was srong in every sense of any law or rule. Perios.  Would permits or other laws prevented it?  NO.  Locks keep honest people honest.  More violence is carried out by those who ignore the law than the law abiding citizens like myself that want to protect ourselves from those who want ot do us harm.  Unfortunately, those that do harm sometimes do not give enough warning for others to take sure and decisive action to stop it in time.  TO the writer of this pos article and Olberman, get your facts straight.  You have arguments against concealed carry then use them when it is relevant and not just to grandstand on the tragedy of others when the topic is completely different.

    • jim rhoads
      January 9, 2011

      He had a hand gun with a massive clip. Your ignorance is in this matter is that you are pigheadeded and still think that this country is and episode of Combat or Gunsmoke!!!!!! 

      • Pamela
        January 9, 2011

        Or Shootout at the OK Corral.

      • JoeS
        January 9, 2011

        Oddly enough the “shoot out at OK corral” was SPARKED by gun control….

      • recovering progressive
        January 9, 2011

        You are right. The lack of gun violence in the large liberal cities in the US with strict gun laws and the peaceful utopia of the gun restrictive country of Mexico to our south is proof that Arizona has it all wrong.

        Again, thanks for demonstrating the logic of the left.

      • Jon Goldsberry
        January 10, 2011

        O.K. I stand corrected, I had heard it was an assult rifle but now find I was wrong.  Information was inaccurate at the time.  Is that a reason for a personal attack against me?  Is that your only defense?  When an argument is actually well thought out the only response is to attack me personally when I said absolutely nothing wrong about you or anyone else?  Yes it was a handgun with extended magazines.  WOuld a permit have stopped this?  Does a permit stop a drug dealer from carrying the same gun that was used in this shooting?  I am a firm beliver that law abiding citizens should have the choice to be armed to protect ourselves from thase that would do us harm.  It evens the playing field a bit.  While is does not completely stop gunviolence, it certainly gives the people that would do me or my loved ones harm something to think about.  I make to excuses or apologies that I caryy a firearm.  I harm no one and protect my family when needed from those like the shooter or others that would do harm.  Is it gunsmoke?  Of course not.  I don’t walk around with a gun on my hio, I have it concealed, as law requires.  I don’t carry where law prohibits either.  Maybe thats why the shooter wasn’t shot.  Carrying around the store was prohibited by law so no one was able to shoot him bvefore he shot so many.  If your only argument to my response is a personal attack again, save your breath.  That only shows me and many others that you have nothing to add to this discussion and cannot think like an adult.  Have a Happy New Year.

    • Pamela Powers
      January 9, 2011

      Six innocent people are dead, a moderate Congresswoman is fighting for her life, and you’re quibbling about which lax Arizona gun law is to blame?
       
      Here are some facts for you: 1) Arizona has some of the most lax gun laws in the country; 2) the Arizona Legislature passes any gun law the gun lobby suggests; 3) a mentally unstable man was allowed to legally buy a gun; 4) 6 people are dead.

      • Charles McGee
        January 9, 2011

        What evidence do you have that Jared Lougher is mentally unstable. Do you know him? Have you interviewed him and are competent to make the determination? It is time that we cease characterizing fellow citizens who do things we do not approve of as unstable. I do not know exactly what you mean by ‘a moderate Congresswoman.’ She supports the pro-Israel lobby so that would appear she is a right wing radical.

      • Pamela
        January 9, 2011

        Regarding his mental state, read this article
        http://tucsoncitizen.com/mark-evans/archives/392
        And the one in today’s Arizona Daily Star. Also, check out Dupnik’s TV comments.
         
        Ask any Tucson progressive about Gabby and they will tell you she is a moderate. We backed her in the election because she is intelligent and has integrity. Also, Jesse Kelly was a no-nothing.

      • Pamela
        January 9, 2011

        Sorry… know-nothing.

      • John
        January 9, 2011

        Nice personal attack against Jesse Kelly.   Says a lot about you.

      • John
        January 9, 2011

        One more thing.  You may think Jesse Kelly is a “know-nothing”, but one thing is for sure.  He is a war veteran and knows how to put his life on the line and serve his country.  What have you done to serve your country?

      • leftfield
        January 10, 2011

        He is a war veteran and knows how to put his life on the line and serve his country

        This is not really an absolute qualification for public office.  William Calley was a war veteran too.

      • John
        January 10, 2011

        I never said it was.

      • Frank "Lefty" Parker
        January 10, 2011

        Wow!

  5. Pingback: Gun used in Tucson was purchased legally; Ariz. laws among most lax in nation – Washington Post | FinanceLogger.com

  6. Yohann Wilkerson
    January 9, 2011

    So the guy that was forced to withdraw from school over his disruptions, whom the school declared in need of psychological evaluation, and whose classmates say was confused and disruptive, and had several run-ins with campus police, the same dude who posted hate-spewing videos along with recordings telling the world ‘goodbye’ and asking his friends to ‘not hate him’ up and shoots people, and somehow it’s the gun legislation’s fault?
    You do not need to control guns. You need to control people. This guy’s imbalance was known. He made his intentions clear. If he hadn’t had a gun, he’d just as likely used a bomb and hurt even more people. Where were the mental health folks? Where were the authorities? Where were this boy’s parents?
    Sorry, but you can’t blame this one on the gun lobbyists. There were too many warning flags already up on this kid. Someone should have stopped him long before this.

    • Pamela
      January 9, 2011

      Yes, lots of red flags and he was allowed to legally purchase a gun in Arizona. And what is your point?

      • JoeS
        January 9, 2011

        He passed the FEDERAL background check,  Az does not do the NICS background check.   His purchase has nothing to do with Arizonas laws,  get you facts straight dear.

  7. Mark
    January 9, 2011

    The gun used on Rep. Giffords and 19 others was a glock 19, a handgun, not an assault rifle, and if you think he could have walked up to the front of Safeway with a rifle and shot those people as efficiently as he did, get real…
    There were other people around the shooting site who had weapons with them and what did they protect? Who did they save? No one. It was one or two people who tackled Loughner who probably saved other lives, not the concealed-carry gun owners.
    Study after study shows that you are much more likely to be shot accidentally (or shoot someone else close to you either by accident or out of anger) than protect yourself by using a firearm.
    Personally, knowing what I know now about the lack of common sense gun laws in Arizona, I wouldn’t visit there and, if I lived there, would move to some place safer.
    Arizona where, obviously, so many people fantasize themselves in Tombstone circa 1881, ready for a shootout with the Clanton’s, is not where I want my 9 year old granddaughter to live.

    • az mommy
      January 9, 2011

      No one in the immediate crowd was armed and even if they had been, a firearm is for self protection and protecting oneself comes with the possibility of hefty consequences, if not criminal, civil. If you kill someone out of the necessity to preserve your own life, you still could be sued in civil court by the victim or the victim’s family. Any educated gun carrying person knows the legalities associated with using one’s weapon to kill, even in self defense.

      Also please reference the “study after study” that you referenced above…I am very curious to know the particulars of these studies…but for now, I don’t buy it. Back up your assertations with facts or don’t assert!

    • recovering progressive
      January 9, 2011

      “There were other people around the shooting site who had weapons with them and what did they protect?”

      Assuming you have actual evidence that there were armed citizens present, their lack of action might have something do with the liability laws in AZ.  If someone is shooting up a place and I return fire and one of my bullets happen to go through the murderer, through a wall and hits someone else I will go to prison for Manslaughter. What it comes down to is that it is YOUR duty to protect yourself and your family.  If you want someone else to protect you then indenify them. Otherwise man up and do you duty. 

      You “common sense” guns laws, what ever that means, will not prevent incidents like this and will only limit citizen’s ability to protect themselves in incidents like this.

  8. JD
    January 9, 2011

    “How’s that ‘Constitutional Carry’ law working for ya now?” About as well as Baltimore’s gun control laws.  http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7081VM20110109

  9. Wheat Williams
    January 9, 2011

    Fact: The gunman had a Glock-19 handgun with a full 30-round clip of 9mm bullets, concealed. There is speculation and strong indications that he suffers from schizophrenia. I want to know the whole account of how he obtained the gun and the ammunition, and to see if there is a way to prosecute those involved in getting them to him.

  10. william bonney
    January 9, 2011

    After the J F Kennedy went to Dallas Texas inacted many mesures to control the purchase of  firearms and even an I.D. and registration of legal age for the purchase of bullets.  Suggesting even Texans can have a belief  that Bullet control and ownership requirements would reduce the problem.
    Where I live every horse ride requires I am armed because of dangerous gun practices coincidental  illegal dumping and other crimes being conducted on our National Forest Land.  Since the politico amendment banter about Automatic weapons in the Fall of 2004  Rattta a taattta tatttta zzzuuuttttta is  frequently heard here at our home.   I have patched holes in our house.
    The same people that are practicing to protect their meth labs doped up with blood shot eyes;  vote republican every election .

  11. Cato
    January 9, 2011

    Apparently not good enough. No one in the immediate crowd was armed (as they could have been) and/or otherwise capable of stopping the criminal.

    • Pamela Powers
      January 9, 2011

      Yes, that’s a great idea– a full-throttle gun battle at the Safeway!

      • Vinnie
        February 26, 2011

        Just stop.

  12. Roland
    January 9, 2011

    It’s really hypocritical to complain about the tone of  today’s politics when the left was the prime force for fomenting political violence for decades.  They still refuse to unequivocally denounce the violence that they have encouraged and excused over the years.
    Likewise, even as the media cries crocodile tears over the escalation of rhetoric, they were at the very core of that escalation during the Bush years.
    And then there’s yesterdays tragedy, which the media and left immediately started blaming on the “tea party” even though  there’s no evidence that the killer was motivated by any coherent political agenda.     Maybe the left will be saved some embarrassment if it turns out that this “person of interest” really had involvement and political motive, but right now they seem undeterred by the need for any legitimate connection.
    As for what this says about gun control in Arizona, it would seem that this murderer is the kind of person that background checks are intended to deter.  Whether such a law would have been any more effective in preventing him from obtaining a firearm is another question entirely.

    • recovering progressive
      January 9, 2011

      Dude it is obvious this guy was a follower of Glenn Beck, Sara Palin and Ronald Regan.  He listed two of his favorite books as The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. He even had a video on his youtube channel of a flag buring.  If that does not spell “right wing radical” I don’t know what does.

    • Pamela
      January 9, 2011

      “the left was the prime force for fomenting political violence for decades”

      What have you been smoking? Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle, Ruth McClung, Jesse Kelly, Joe Miller, Russell Pearce, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck– all promoted “second amendment solutions” and came very close to proposing violent overthrow of our government. All are darlings of the Tea Party. Get real.
      http://tucsoncitizen.com/tucson-progressive/2010/10/26/has-the-tea-party-gone-off-the-deep-end/

      • John
        January 9, 2011

        Do you have evidence that all of those you list have promoted “second amendment solutions”, besides Sharron Angle?

  13. az mommy
    January 9, 2011

    Crazy people who are determined to kill will find a way regardless of the gun control laws in place. Can you say for sure that if there were better controls in place this man wouldn’t have been able to get a firearm?

    This article is super biased and is just another example of how the media bombards people with one sided opinions that aren’t back by facts.

    The author of this article has no involvement, education or background in gun control or lack thereof, so I am confused as to why she would even address this subject with such an authoritative tone.

    • leftfield
      January 9, 2011

      The author of this article has no involvement, education or background in gun control…

      Maybe not, but as of yesterday I believe we all became witnesses to the lack of gun control.

      • JoeS
        January 9, 2011

        Gun control is a dead issue in this country,  Heller/McDonald put it to rest very recently.

        This issue will do nothing to jump start it either,  get over it.

        BTW,  Giffords IS a GLOCK owner.

      • John
        January 9, 2011

        If the shooter was not able to get a gun, what would have stopped him from driving a vehicle into the crowd instead?

      • Syron
        January 9, 2011

        He took a cab to the grocery store.  I doubt the cab driver would have been willing to let him drive since they usually won’t let passengers drive. 

      • John
        January 9, 2011

        I know you’re trying to be clever, but if the shooter was not able to obtain a gun and wanted to crash a vehicle into the crowd instead, obviously he would not take a cab.  He would either steal one or use his parents’ vehicle.

      • JoeS
        January 9, 2011

        I think it has been reported he had a older Chevy Nova,  very likely with the high capacity assault engine.

  14. Cato
    January 9, 2011

    New York’s draconian gun prohibition did not prevent John Lennon’s murder nor does Chicago’s prevent 400 plus murders per year…and that’s a good year there! Rather it is the bleeding heart liberal’s deinstitutionalization of the insane that is the real cause of these kind of outrages. Back in the day as soon as the lunatic was discoverd, away they went to the asylum. For good.

    • Pamela Powers
      January 9, 2011

      Didn’t you hear? We don’t need no stinkin’ mental health coverage in Arizona. We believe in free-range crazies.

      • JoeS
        January 9, 2011

        Must have been all that pot he smoked

      • leftfield
        January 10, 2011

        Not uncommon for people with mental illness to attempt to self-medicate.  Often marijuana is their medication of choice.

      • recovering progressive
        January 10, 2011

        Well, then it is OK.

  15. citizentoo
    January 9, 2011

    Washington DC doesn’t allow handgun ownership but, it’s one of the highest numbered areas with handgun related deaths in the country.  If more people would buy handguns and become proficient with them, maybe the criminals would think twice about who they mess with.  Personally, if anyone messes with me or my family, I will unload a clip full on Glaser Safety ammo into them.  I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

  16. Pamela Powers
    January 9, 2011

    Just a reminder, folks, I will trash all comments that call for someone– anyone– to be killed.
     
    Any you don’t think we have a problem with violence in this country?

    • JoeS
      January 9, 2011

      I guess we won’t be seeing any posts from Alec Baldwin…

      “I am thinking to myself in other countries they are laughing at us twenty four hours a day and I’m thinking to myself if we were in other countries, we would all right now, all of us together, all of us together would go down to Washington and we would stone Henry Hyde to death! We would stone him to death! Wait! Shut up! Shut up! No shut up! I’m not finished. We would stone Henry Hyde to death and we would go to their homes and we’d kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families. What is happening in this country? What is happening?”

  17. leftfield
    January 9, 2011

    I’m not in favor of gun control, believing that, “If guns are outlawed, only the right wing lunatics will have guns”, but I just have to ask why the theory that everyone being armed necessarily leading to a safer and more polite society didn’t seem to work yesterday.  I’m sure more bullets flying back and forth would have improved the situation, no? 

    I am looking forward to your replies.  

    I am also looking forward to hearing the Glenn Becks, Sarah Palins and Sharron Angles explain how they never intended for their rhetoric to lead to any real violence and killing.  I can’t wait to hear them say, “We never told anyone to actually go out and kill someone”.  Just like the guy who wrote the “The Turner Diaries” who completely disavowed any responsibility for the Oklahoma bombing. 

    Once you start down that road of inciting violence, you can’t always control the tiger.    

    • recovering progressive
      January 10, 2011

      Please keep posting as a reminder of the ignorance of the left.

  18. Trek
    January 9, 2011

    If you are a gun owner and you could bring back the 9-year-old who was murdered by giving up your right to own a gun, would you?  If you answer no, then you must not have children or you are selfish.  Gun owners need to stop killers by giving up something that is really unnecessary and is killing innocent children and others. Evolve into the new times, give peace a chance.

    • JoeS
      January 9, 2011

      You should listen to the interview that just occured with that childs father.

    • az mommy
      January 10, 2011

      Of course, I would give up my firearm if it would bring the poor little girl back…you suggest that gun owners give up “something” that is really unnecessary and kills others…if you lie a gun on the table by itself, it can’t kill anyone…people kill people, plain and simple.

      As a former victim of a violent crime, I feel a lot better knowing that should I ever be attacked again, the outcome will be far different than the first time around. I used to think that guns were silly and overrated, but after experiencing the evil that lurks out there in the world, I am convinced that I live a much safer existence than I ever did before.

      The real issue is that a mentally ill person who exhibited violent tendencies was basically ignored and shunned by everyone who came in contact with him. No one tried to help him and his mental illness got the best of him and led to a terrible tragedy.

  19. Cato
    January 9, 2011

    Hey Trek…give up your car.

  20. Milegrinder
    January 9, 2011

    This is the first blog, column, news story, whatever I’ve seen that raises any nexus whatsoever between the rise of “small government” fanaticism, guns-everywhere-for-everyone, and the systematic deconstruction of this country’s mental health system. Ever notice that those who want smaller government also support prisons and the death penalty for the mentally ill? You know these folks by the company their thoughts keep. Let all the mentally ill (more of whom are victims than perpetrators) roam the streets, permitted the dubious freedom of going free of treatment or assistance, until they hurt themselves or others?  That’s what the Tea Party and other uber-libertarians believe.  And they want all the rest of us to pay the cost of their politico-masturbatory fantasies.

  21. Marvin Garcia
    January 9, 2011

    We need to heed Mr. Oberman’s comments, I wholeheartedly believe sheriff Dupniks comments that Arizona is the mecca of bigotry and prejudice. I believe the republican leadership (ie) Brewer, Horn,Pierce,etc. should reflect on thier rheteric and reasons for introducing and supporting racist legilation.

  22. gtr81
    January 9, 2011

    Dear Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik. 

    I hereby request that you do the citizens of Pima County and the rest of this Republic a great favor and remove yourself from office as you are obviously not fit to carry out your responsibility to defend the US Constitution, as evident by your Unconstitutional comments regarding the freedom of speech and the press.

    For you to suggest that people on talk radio or television made that man shoot the Congresswoman and those other people is absurd, and it is rhetoric unbecoming of a someone wearing the badge of a US Sheriff.  You are a disgrace to your office and a shame to this Republic.

    Perhaps if you spent more time defending our Constitution against Domestic Enemies such as Obama, Pelosi, Reid, McCain, Pistole, Napalitano, Bernake, Geithner, Soros and others, this shooting would never have taken place.  You and those that have declared war on our Constitution are to blame for that little girls death.  You who have refused your oath and title of Sheriff and have become derelict in your duty to defend the Constitution; the blood is on your hands.
    These murders were probably arranged by Obama in order to try and further destroy our Constitutional rights, same as he is doing with all of the other Unconstitutional “laws” and executive orders he’s passing.

    • Pamela Powers
      January 10, 2011

      Are you kidding? Dupnik has a fan page facebook. People are cheering his refreshingly honest comments. Turn off Jon Justice and listen to some real news on NPR.

  23. tomd
    January 9, 2011

    Australia has 1.3 homicides for every 100,000 people per year, the US 5.7 (2007 stats – 266 murders versus 15,241). You want to keep alive about 12,ooo Americans, who are now being killed by guns (not counting suicides and accidents) each year, you restrict gun ownership. Simple. I don’t want to keep reading about these American tragedies. And I’m no whining liberal. I grew up on a ranch Down Under in a house full of guns.

    • gtr81
      January 9, 2011

      Governments have murdered 10’s of millions of their own citizens, and you want to know what each of those murderous Dictators had in common?  Hmm Mr. Smart Guy?
      They All Had Their Citizens Disarmed First, and Then They Slaughtered Them.
       
      Australia has just under 23 million people in its entirety!  The USA has 350,000,000 people – more than 10 Times the population you DOLT!
      Our Government murdered 3,000 people here on 9-11-2001, they murdered thousands of  black men in the 50’s, thousands of Guatemalan children in the 1970’s, they used to forcefully sterilize people here in the 1920’s, and they put 200,000 Americans in forced labor camps after Pearl Harbor.  Our government staged the Gulf of Tonkin to and got how many hundreds of thousands Americans and Vietnamese killed so the Military Complex and Pentagon could get billions?
       
      Our government is getting our ignorant men and women in the armed forces killed in two illegal wars, and has caused them to murder how many thousands Afghani’s and Iraqi’s?
      And you think the solution is take away the 100,000,000 guns from the LAW ABIDING people of this republic so that we can be defenseless against our tyrannical and murderous government?  You sir, are Nuts!
      BAD guys kill people – murderers murder people – NOT GUNS!
       
      We 4 times more guns than you have people, and only a hand full of Americans are murdered each year – more die at the hands of our Government and the UN.

  24. Maryanne James
    January 9, 2011

    Our gun laws are not lax. They are Constitutionally correct. They adhere to the Second Amendment.
    No law is perfect, but one that allows normal citizens to arm and defend themselves in accordance with the Constitution of the United States is at least legal, unlike gun banning laws.
    Anyone bent on committing a crime will acquire a gun one way or another, lawfully or not. Gun control laws don’t stop the bad guys from anything. They just prevent the potential victims from defending themselves if they choose to do so.
    What I find shameful is that here, in a Constitutional Carry state, there was no one nearby armed, willing and able to stop this guy as soon as he took the gun out and started shooting. Someone had to physically tackle him to stop him. He was obviously set on committing suicide by cop and someone should have been in a position to accommodate him, with or without a badge!

  25. gjdagis
    January 9, 2011

    Things like this HAPPEN! There are over 300,000,000 people in this country; the odds are that THINGS LIKE THIS WILL HAPPEN! It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to blatantly abridge the peoples’ freedoms on the basis of what is, indeed, actually a very rare occurrence. Sometimes I believe that some of these people PRAY for tragedies like this to happen so they can start this nonsense again!

    • Pamela Powers
      January 10, 2011

      Is this the FOX News answer to an assassination? “S**t happens”?
       
      Just curious if you took this stance when the Cochise County rancher was shot last summer.

  26. JoeS
    January 9, 2011

    “It was just a normal Saturday, I woke up and had breakfast with my mom, I was planning on watching football, I didn’t plan on this horrible thing, I walked out and went into the Walgreens to buy cigarettes and inside of the counter I heard the gunshots, it was like a fireworks almost it was pop pop pop like that, and I said to the girl behind the counter is that is that because i was going to say is that fireworks but I knew it was a gun I’ve been raised around guns my whole life and I knew it was a gun, and I carry a gun for my own protection and I had it with me so I ran back outside and there was a man with a camera who said ‘shooter shooter get down’ and I ran towards the noise and that was after the last gunshot, at that point the other gentleman you spoke with the other gentleman and a lady were wrestling with I don’t know what his name is, the guy, the shooter”

    [so you ran towards the suspect]

    “yeah, they had already taken the gun form him and he was struggling with them, I went over there I pinned him down to the ground I waited with them until the police came, it was just ridiculous, the gun was empty, when you finish firing an semiautomatic like that the top stays back and it was cocked back, it was locked open and he was out of bullets, but he had another extended magazine that he was trying to load into the gun that the woman was able to wrestle away form him, and he was gonna keep shooting, he was not over he just ran out of bullets”

    [how long were you on him]

    “oh I don’t know not more than five minutes, probably ’bout like three or four, it seemed like a really long time at first but I checked my phone afterwards ’cause I was calling 911 and it couldn’t have been more than five minutes, three minutes, four minutes maybe, the first sheriff’s department officer showed up and when he got there we said ‘we got him he’s right here he’s the shooter’ he came put him in cuffs, almost immediately there were two or three more deputies there, they searched him in my presence, I saw them pull two more magazines out of his pockets and a pocket knife, I mean he was ready for war, he was not playing around”

    [did he say anything while you were holding him down]

    “the only thing he said was ‘my arm ow my arm’ they had his arm wrenched back which I’m real glad I didn’t know he had a knife in his pocket I mean I had a gun and if he had been reloaded or something I would have pulled it on him but I wasn’t trying to go that place and scare anyone if it wasn’t necessary, but I didn’t know he had a knife on him I mean he could have hurt us there holding him down, it was just scary, and he said ‘ow my arm’ but we didn’t care we just kept holding him there, and then his facial expression was expressionless, it was blank, it was callous almost.”

  27. Pingback: Only in America: Putting a positive spin on assassination (video) - Tucson Progressive

  28. Entropy
    January 10, 2011

    I’m a gun owner. I own several firearms, and spend hours at the range almost every other weekend (SERP range). I’m also a NRA member, but also a Giffords supporter, live in her district, and voted for her. It really tore me up inside that she was shot.
     
    IMHO, and armed citizenry does not make it a safe one. Firstly, most shooters who go on this rampage are not worried about “getting whacked” themselves.  THey usually turn the gun on themselves or suicide by cop, so that argurement that if the shooter knows that there may be other citizens armed is a deterent is false.
     
    Second, most right-wing whackos believe that as soon as you purchase your first firearm, you an expert marksman, know how to strip the weapon, and know all the gun-laws. I’m sorry, but this is so far from the truth it’s laughable. Most firearm owners purchase a gun, shot a single magazine through it, and then never fire it again. Then they walk around feeling like “Dirty Harry” when in a real shooting situation, couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn at 10 yards.  A responsible gun owner must also be a good judge of distance. You must know the limits of your gun and your skill. THis is only done by practice. A first time pistol owner may think he can successfully hit a target at 100-yards.  He may not even know what a 25 yards looks like let alone hit that target, stationary or moving beyond that.  THey shoot 10 rounds in their entire life, and they think they are sharpshooters. 
     
    I’ve seen gun owners handle a gun so unsafe, it made me run out of the vicinity of them.
     
    This Jared person is clearly unstable (that’s obvious, he just shot 20 people with the intent to kill. Rational people don’t do that). There was no way to deter him from legally purchasing a gun. If anyone off the streets can claim you are “crazy”, then we would just have massive witch-hunts.  He would have had to have a real history of mental-illness diagnosed by a real doctor. He did not. The change in CCW laws would also have not made a difference.  Nothing would have stoped him from arriving to the event with a pistol in his pocket.  
     
    There can be an arguement made for the clip size. Most states do not allow a clip size that large.  He could have been tackled sooner if he was reloading a 15 round clip. Who knows, but that is plausable.
     
    I have a 30-rd clip for one of my rifles. Reason I have it, it saves reloading time. I like the convienence.

  29. blinkythecrow
    January 10, 2011

    Pamela Powers writes: “According to public health research, the number one risk factor for being shot by a gun is owning a gun. Also, according to the research, gun owners are more likely to shoot friends and family members than burglars or other bad guys.”

    The body count of the number of bad guys shot dead is not a valid measure of the effectiveness of guns used in self-defense.

    The faulty “public health research” cited by Powers (above) have been discredited by other medical professionals.  As presented in “Guns in the Medical Literature — A Failure of Peer Review”:
    “Errors of fact, design, and interpretation abound in the medical literature on guns and violence. The peer review process has failed to prevent publication of the errors of politicized, results-oriented research. Most of the data on guns and violence are available in the criminological, legal, and social sciences literature, yet escapes acknowledgment or analysis of the medical literature. Lobbyists and other partisans continue to promulgate the fallacies that cloud the public debate and impede the development of effective strategies to reduce violence in our society. This article examines a representative sample of politicized and incompetent research. ”

    See – http://rkba.org/research/suter/med-lit.html#abstract

  30. blinkythecrow
    January 10, 2011

    Entrophy writes: ” He could have been tackled sooner if he was reloading a 15 round clip.”

    My primary defense gun for the last 10 years has been a Glock 19.  I happen to have a 33 round magazine like the one used by Jared Loughner.  To speculate that he could’ve been tackled sooner had he been using standard 15 round magazines is faulty.

    The substantially longer length of the 33 round magazine makes it unwieldy.  It’s also pretty heavy when fully loaded with 33  cartridges.  The unwieldiness of the magazine (long and heavy) may have caused him to fumble and slow down as he tried to reload – providing the opportunity for others to tackle him.  Whereas had he been using standard 15 round magazines he may have been able to reload much quicker and he may not have been vulnerable to being physically subdued like he was.

    Shawn Dodson
    FirearmsTactical.com

    • Entropy
      January 11, 2011

      I would also ask, if you reply to me, do not take my statements out of context. I said it was “plausable”, meaning… speculation. We can also “speculate” that he practiced loading and unloading a 33-rd magazine with profeceincy. A pistol with extra weight does not make it unweildly, especially near the grip, just harder to aim. I doubt he was aiming, but just “spraying and praying”.  I myself can load and unload an extended 30rd mag as fast as I can a 5 or 10 rd mag.

  31. Pingback: White Panthers: The corporatists and cronies who run Arizona with Russell Pearce’s help - Tucson Progressive

  32. TimMcG74
    April 13, 2011

    “In April 2010, the Arizona Legislature passed and Governor Jan Brewer signed a law allowing Arizonans to carry concealed weapons without a permit– euphemistically called ‘constitutional carry’.”

    The moniker “constitutional carry” is not in any sense a euphemism.  It is labeled as such because we have a constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms.   Before anyone starts spewing nonsense about a “well regulated militia” you may want to briefly review the original intent of the Bill of Rights.  The people at large ARE the militia, and the Second Amendment exists to protect us from government tyranny as much as from violent individuals such as Jared Loughner.  The fact that gun control does not prevent gun violence is undeniably true, but irrelevant.  This is an issue of enumerated, uninfringeable constitutional rights. If you don’t like it, attempt to amend the Bill of Rights.  Good luck with that, by the way.

  33. Alden Wayne Dumas
    May 28, 2011

    Anyone bent on committing a crime will acquire a gun one way or another, lawfully or not. Anyone bent on killing another person will kill them with a gun, a knife, a shovel, poison, a vehicle, physical violence etc etc etc, the list could go on endlessly.. We the People have a govt; gone tyrant, we are in multiple ” unconstitutional ” wars, With the help of our tyrant govt; we are being robbed financially by the FED.. Every program controlled by our Govt; tyrant is a complete, misserable failure !!!! Ask this?    

    Do you really think I am willing to let the Govt controll what kind of Guns I own? how many guns I have? where they are kept? 

    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.” Thomas Jefferson

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About

The Tucson Progressive: Pamela Powers Hannley

I stand on the side of Love. I believe in kindness to all creatures on Earth and the inherent self-worth of all individuals--not just people who agree with me or look like me.

Widespread economic and social injustice prompted me to become a candidate for the Arizona House, representing Legislative District 9 in the 2016 election. My platform focuses on economic reforms to grow Arizona's economy, establish a state-based public bank, fix our infrastructure, fully fund public education, growlocal small businesses and community banks, and put people back to work at good-paying jobs. I also stand for equal rights, choice, and paycheck fairness for women. I am running as a progressive and running clean.

My day job is managing editor for the American Journal of Medicine, an academic medicine journal with a worldwide circulation. In addition, my husband and I co-direct Arizonans for a New Economy, Arizona's public banking initiative. I am a member of the national board of the Public Banking Institute, and I am co-chair of the Arizona Democratic Progressive Caucus, the largest caucus of the Arizona Democratic Party.

I am a published author, photographer, videographer, clay artist, mother, nana, and wife. I have a bachelor's degree in journalism from Ohio State University and a masters in public health from the University of Arizona. I grew up in Amherst, Ohio, but I have lived in Tucson, Arizona since 1981. I am a proud member of the Unitarian Universalist Church of Tucson and the Public Relations Society of America.

My Tucson Progressive blog and Facebook page feature large doses of liberal ideas, local, state, and national politics, and random bits of humor. I also blog at Blog for Arizona and the Huffington Post.

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